A Changing Reality in the Alps with Ruby Olsson – POWcast Episode 5

Transcript

James Worsfold: [00:00:00] This podcast was recorded on the lands of the Ngunnawal people in Canberra, the Mwinya people in Hobart, and the Wurundjeri people in Melbourne.

Welcome to The POWcast, a podcast from Protect Our Winters Australia, where we chat to those who love the mountains and are fighting for their future. I’m James Worsfold, and in this episode, we’ll break down the science underpinning the changes we’re seeing in the High Country.

I’ll be joined by Ruby Olsen, the lead author of Our Changing Snowscape. A report into how climate change will impact the Aussie Alps, from the environment to industries to people. This report from the Australian National University and the Australian Mountain Research facility was commissioned by Protect Our Winters to fill in some gaps in the knowledge of the alpine loving community, so we can better understand the climate challenges we’re facing.

But before we talk science, let’s touch on why we need it. I’m joined by Sam Quirk, one of PALS directors. Now, Sam, why did PAL decide to commission this report? [00:01:00]

Sam Quirke: So, a bit over a year ago, when the organisation was getting a bunch of new volunteers on board, we were building on a few things, namely our policy positions as an organisation and also our education strategy.

And what we were finding at the time was, A lot of research on the impact of climate change on Aussie winters was quite scattered, quite disconnected. It might be, you know, um, snow depth here, snow days there, snow cover over there, um, Um, some of it a bit outdated as well, and it really didn’t touch on social economic impacts of what climate change means for Australian winters.

So we decided to commission an independent report that would touch on the impact of climate change. social, environmental and economic impacts of climate change on Australian winters. And then that [00:02:00] turned into a, um, a far more broad based report that touched on things such as not just impacts to winter tourism and ski resorts, but the regional economies.

First Nations people, impacts on ecosystems, um, and also, for instance, impacts on the Murray Darling Basin. So, uh, the report that was, that was, uh, done by ANU, all independently, is very broad based and really highlights that winter is, and the Australian Alps, is so much more than just being able to ski and snowboard.

There are a range of Um, people, places, and ecosystems that rely on winter to survive and to thrive.

James Worsfold: And so where did the money come from to fund this report and why did we decide this was the best? to put that money into.

Sam Quirke: Yeah. So, uh, we’re a volunteer organization. We don’t have a lot of money at all. Uh, so a lot of the money came [00:03:00] from 2023 fundraising efforts.

We put, uh, you know, nearly all of that eggs. In the basket with this independent report, we thought it was really important that we fund this because it’s so foundational to the work that we do and the advocacy, uh, that we do as an organization and what we’re trying to achieve, which is to protect our winters for generations to come.

We, we’ve really needed to understand, uh, clearly what are the challenges, what are the risks, what are the problems that we’re facing and what are the recommendations for addressing those.

James Worsfold: Alright, now over to Ruby to teach us what the report says about climate change in the Aussie Alps.

Ruby Olsen: Yeah. So my name is Ruby Olson.

I’m a researcher at the Australian National University. I research, um, how like natural resource managers make climate adaptation decisions, um, particularly to do with ecological transformation. So when whole landscapes are, are kind of changing as a result of, [00:04:00] um, anthropocentric climate change.

James Worsfold: And you’ve taken particular interest to studying our mountains and our alpine environment. What drew you to research that area?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, so I’m looking at snow gum dieback, um, and decline due to bushfires in the Australian Alps. So that’s an example of that, um, ecological transformation where we’re seeing the entire Australian Alps, uh, change, um, particularly with snow gums, which are being impacted by this, uh, this native beetle, um, and also changes to the bushfire regime in the Alps.

I do love the Australian Alps. I think they’re a really unique place. Um, like there’s not very many places in Australia that, uh, you get snow. Um, there’s also not very many places in Australia that are, that are actually mountainous, like most of Australia is very flat. Uh, so yeah, I think they’re a really unique landscape.

Um, I learned to ski when I was 18, um, and yeah, went up to the Australian Alps, uh, to learn how to ski. I’ve done a lot of hiking up there in the summer. Um, and yeah, I think it’s a really special place, um, [00:05:00] that a lot of Australians really connect with.

James Worsfold: And Ruby, I’m speaking to you today because you’re the lead author of Our Change in Snowscapes, the report into how, uh, our mountains will be impacted by climate change.

Um, now this report has a very broad scope rather than just being about environment or economics. Why is it important to look at all these facets of the Alps together?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, that’s a great question. I think, um, what this report really highlighted was that climate change is already impacting the Australian Alps, but it’s doing it across, yeah, as you say, all of these really interconnected different spaces.

Uh, and that includes like obviously Alpine tourism, but also regional communities, Alpine ecosystems, um, inflows into the Murray Darling basin and for hydro electricity in the Australian Alps. Um, Yeah, so really interconnected, uh, impacts that if we address in, in isolation, we’re going to miss these opportunities to, um, to, yeah, I guess have a broader impact, um, uh, in addressing climate change.

James Worsfold: One of the larger [00:06:00] parts of the report is the SkiSim2 modelling. Could you run me through what that actually is and, and what the results of that were?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, sure. So this SkiSim2 modelling was done by Robert Steiger from the University of Innsbruck. Um, so it was developed, uh, For international ski markets, um, and it incorporates both snow making, so like resorts capacity to artificially produce snow, um, as well as, I guess, changes in climate that are going to impact natural snowfall, um, and that ability to make, to make snow.

Uh, and it also includes a minimum snow depth, uh, in this case of 30 centimetres, which is kind of this, you know, international standard, um, as a, yeah, the minimum depth for, for recreational downhill skiing at a resort.

James Worsfold: What were some of the findings from, from these simulations?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, so the SkiSim 2 modeling showed that, uh, on average across all Australian ski resorts, so in New South Wales, Victoria, um, and Tasmania, uh, Ben Lamond Resort, [00:07:00] um, on average ski seasons in the 2050s will be 28 days shorter, uh, in the low emissions scenario, um, 44 days shorter in the mid emissions scenario, and 55 days shorter in the high emissions scenario.

Um, and this did vary based a lot on, like, the elevation of the resorts, so lower elevation resorts are going to be more severely impacted by climate change, um, whereas the high elevation resorts still have reasonably long ski seasons, particularly in the low and mid emission scenario. Um, in that high emission scenario, you are looking at all resorts really, uh, being really challenged by the, the ski season lengths.

Um, and just to briefly explain about those emission scenarios as well, so we used representative concentration pathways, so RCPs. Um, they were developed by the IPCC, um, at a kind of like a, I guess, a concentration of greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere. And they chose multiple scenarios um looking at yeah different levels of concentration based on how [00:08:00] we, as a, as a globe, reduce our emissions.

And we also used shared socio economic pathways, so SSPs and these are a very similar thing. They’re a slightly more recent model by the IPCC. And yeah, same thing, they look at different kind of scenarios of, like, you know, government action and also technology, social drivers, um, of reducing our greenhouse gas emissions.

James Worsfold: So these emission scenarios, they’re basically like alternate futures that, you know, the low emissions is if we, we cut pollution now and we invested a lot of money and, and, and social effort into adjusting climate action. And the high emission scenario is if we kept emitting at a large amount. Is that along the right lines?

Ruby Olsen: Pretty broadly, if we, um, if we do everything we possibly can right now to reduce emissions, we’ll definitely be in that low emission scenario. But at the moment, we’re not on track for that. Um, we’re kind of in more that mid emission scenario. Um, and if we, if we really do nothing now and all the investment towards renewable energy kind of, you know, fades [00:09:00] away, um, we’ll probably end up in that, in that higher emission scenario.

James Worsfold: And you said something that these, this modeling takes into account is snowmaking. Historically, the resorts have tended to use snowmaking to buffer the effects of climate change and, uh, allow their operations amid a decline in ski season. Is that something that they can continue to do into the future?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, so, yeah, snowmaking is the main adaptation measure by, um, Australian resorts and actually internationally as well. Um, it’s, it’s a fantastic, uh, technology that they have, but it is dependent still on, um, low temperatures and, uh, like low humidity, so dryness of air. Um, so that’s, that’s important. Um, and that’s uh, wet bulb temperature kind of represents both of those things.

Uh, and in the report, we had a kind of threshold of negative two degrees wet bulb temperature for resorts to continue to produce snow. Um, and obviously with climate change, we’re seeing these increases in, uh, the temperature of the Alps [00:10:00] and also reduces in precipitation. Um, and so it is going to impact both natural snowfall, but also the resorts ability to, to keep making snow.

All right. They can make snow at slightly more marginal temperatures, but you, you really have this trade off with energy. It becomes far more energy intensive. Um, the quality of snow is reduced. Um, and there are also just, yeah, massive, um, water and electricity costs associated with snow making. So that adds in this, um, kind of economic constraint on the results as well.

Um, you know, if they’re making 100 percent of their snow artificially, um, like, is that going to be sustainable, um, for them as, as a business, I guess.

James Worsfold: Okay. So in theory, in theory, that’s possible for them to make snow at marginal temperatures and marginal moisture conditions, but it just doesn’t make, doesn’t add up.

Ruby Olsen: Yeah. I mean, there is actually something called snow factories. Um, so there are a few in the Australian Alps. Uh, I know the, uh, Alpine resorts, Victoria have a few that, uh, I think Mount Buller might have one at the moment or [00:11:00] Mount Baw Baw. Um, yeah, so these snow factories can actually produce snow at up to like 35 degrees.

So there’s really no constraint on temperature, but these are so incredibly energy intensive and, and water intensive. Uh, and then once, once you create this big pile of snow, it’s also quite intensive to like kind of spread that out across the resort, right? So it’s generally, you know, they’re used for small areas for like, you know, terrain park competition or like a, Um, maybe like a beginner slope, but it’s really not a viable option at this point for results to be doing it across their entire area.

Um, so yeah, at this stage they are constrained by these temperatures, um, wet bulb temperature of like negative two degrees basically, and so that’s what the SCE SIM2 modelling kind of took into account, and those season lengths are based on They’re not, not using snow factories for their entire resort and, uh, yeah, being constrained by that temperature dependent snowmaking.

James Worsfold: It just makes a lot more sense to let the weather do it for us.

Ruby Olsen: [00:12:00] So much cheaper. Um, yeah.

James Worsfold: Now, the decline in ski season has broad implications for regional communities and the tourism economy. What kind of challenges will it pose? Will these communities face?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah. So the resorts at the moment are big contributors to the economy.

So New South Wales and Vic ski resorts combined contribute more than like 3. 3 billion to, um, to these state economies. Um, and yeah, most of that is, yeah, like tourism. It’s not just the resorts. It’s also restaurants and cafes and ski rental. Um, all this, you know, all this money being brought to these regional towns.

So, if the resorts have to significantly reduce their, their winter offerings, or they close altogether, um, that would have huge impacts, uh, both, yeah, for employment, a lot of, uh, a lot of locals are employed at the resorts, um, and, yeah, more broadly for the rest of the economy. Uh, and I guess it’s really important that, uh, we can, we can adapt.

So, like, summer adaptation, [00:13:00] um, summer tourism, for example, would be a really good option to try and, like, keep that, um, Um, and I think it’s really important that we keep that tourism money there, um, and just in general, economic diversity, um, will, will build the adaptive capacity of these towns. So, you know, some resorts, sorry, some towns, you know, have like hospitals and, you know, other, yeah, other areas of the economy that employ a lot of people, um, and contribute to that regional development.

Um, I guess the other thing to say about local communities is that communities have this connection to the landscape. Um, they, I often live there because, you know, they really love the Australian Alps. Uh, they might be really into skiing or hiking or mountain biking as well. Um, and then as we’re seeing these landscapes change, like we’re seeing this ecological transformation, that’s going to have an impact on communities like mental health.

So you’ve got this kind of, you know, disconnection to the landscape. And you’ve also potentially got these financial pressures as a result of this economic shift.

James Worsfold: Yeah. I [00:14:00] love visiting the alpine regions and I get a lot of joy from that. And the prospect of, of seeing that snow being lost and seeing the degradation of the environment, that.

That will affect me a lot. I can’t imagine what it would be like for the people who live in these places day in day out for years on end and then seeing their landscape change.

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, exactly. And it’s not just the snow as well. Like, you know, we’re seeing all this vegetation change as a result of, of climate change.

Um, you know, the snow gums are in severe decline, uh, and so we’re looking at areas that might not have snow gums in the future. Um, they might be shrubby or they might be like herb field or something. Um, and yeah, I guess just these are big changes that we, we have to grapple with.

James Worsfold: Yeah, could you run me through what the report found about our alpine environment and the changes our ecosystems will see under climate change?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, so there are a lot of, um, ecological changes and they do have flow on effects for, um, you know, other areas that I can talk about. But I guess the two main drivers are increased [00:15:00] temperatures, um, and reduced precipitation. Um, so that, that’s meaning that, uh, different species are kind of moving up in elevation as we’re seeing increased temperatures at higher levels.

Um, and that includes invasive species and weeds. Um, so that’s been a big problem. Um, but also Uh, before snowgum dieback, we’re actually seeing snowgums encroach onto the herb fields. Um, but now that we have dieback, um, and, and I guess fires, we’re seeing this big change in snowgums. I’ll briefly describe snowgum dieback.

So this is being caused by this native wood boring beetle, um, and essentially this beetle lays its larvae, uh, under the bark, um, and this, the larvae kind of, uh, Each of these horizontal galleries, um, underneath the bark, and what this does is it essentially ring barks the tree and prevents, um, like water and nutrients moving between the roots and the canopy.

Um, and so yeah, you see, start to see dieback, which is where the tree kind of dies from the canopy down as you see all these leaves fall off, um, and then eventually the bark will all peel off, [00:16:00] revealing these, um, these horizontal galleries. Um, they’re really, yeah, really prevalent, like in the ski resorts, for example, or if you go hiking, um, yeah, just keep an eye out for these really distinct, um, horizontal lines on, on dead snow gums.

Um, and we’re seeing that as a result of increased temperatures, um, it’s really resulted in an explosion of this beetle population, uh, it’s really thrown out the balance, which is, um, yeah, I guess it’s odd that it’s a native beetle, um, and, and I guess, yeah, it’s having this, this unprecedented level of dieback, uh, for snow gums.

So yeah, the research I’m doing for my PhD is, um, is looking at how this might result in ecological transformation for the Alps, and I guess the broader impacts that it will have on hydrology, um, and like soil stability, also on habitat, um, yeah, so I guess that’s one of the main, the main causes from these increased temperatures, um, and then the other main, major driver of change in the Alps is bushfires, um, Uh, so we’re seeing this really big change in [00:17:00] bushfire regime where increased temperatures and reduced precipitation is, you know, creating more frequent and severe bushfires.

Um, in addition to that, it’s creating this bare ground after a fire, um, and that’s kind of the perfect reestablishment, uh, for shrubs. So shrubs are kind of, you know, establishing in the, this area, and they also happen to be the most flammable. Um, vegetation in the Alps, so it’s increasing the flammability and the fuel in the Alps, and it’s kind of just creating this reinforcing cycle, um, of, yeah, more fires and more shrubs, and yeah, we’re seeing changes in vegetation as a result of that, um, and I guess that also has impacts on, you know, regional communities or resort infrastructure or hydroelectricity infrastructure, um, where, yeah, there’s this risk of, of bushfire as well.

James Worsfold: Obviously the ecosystem and our environment can’t be. Uh, seen in a void, uh, and we as people have, um, very intrinsic relationship with the environment and the mountains and what they provide to us. So could you talk us [00:18:00] through what ecosystem services mean and, uh, what the report found about how these ecosystem services will be impacted?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, sure. So I guess ecosystem services is, uh, It’s an economic framework really of, um, of what, yeah, the, the ecosystem is providing and it, it kind of can regulate the, the climate, for example. Uh, it can provide things like soil stability, which is really important for water quality. Um, without trees in the landscape, um, uh, you get a lot of erosion that picks up a lot of kind of like dirt and particulates and stuff, um, that gets into our water supply.

Uh, ecosystem services, um, also include things like carbon sequestration, uh, which is really important as we’re talking about climate change and what we can do to reduce our emissions. Um, I guess, you know, there, there’s also ecosystem services in terms of recreation, um, you know, people like going out into a beautiful environment, um, And, you know, the Australian Alps [00:19:00] has, yeah, a lot of, a lot of money from tourism and also, yeah, just, just people wanting to go out there and hike or backcountry ski.

Um, so, yeah, I guess those are some of the ecosystem services and some of the impacts of climate change, uh, that, that are resulting are things like, you know, reduced water, um, or water, water quality, which is affecting both hydroelectricity, um, and also the Murray Darling Basin. Hydroelectricity, you’ve got Snow Hydro, and you also have the QS game in Victoria.

Um, and those are going to be pretty important for our transition to renewable energy as kind of like a, a firming source, um, kind of, you know, pumped storage, for example, um, I guess there’s also trade offs, um, and snow, hydro and Cure have had ecological impacts. Um, you know, resorting in this big, uh, infrastructure diverting a lot of the water from the snowy, for example.

Um, so I guess that’s something that we’re gonna have to, to balance, but climate change is going to be reducing the precipitation in the [00:20:00] Alps. Um, and I guess yeah, reducing the effectiveness of, of hydroelectricity. Um, and I guess in terms of inflows into the Murray-Darling Basin as well. The basin gets about 29 percent of its inflows from the Australian Alps.

They’re really productive catchments. And with increased temperatures and reduced precipitation, we’re going to be seeing less water go into the basin. Um, and I assume people kind of know a bit about the Murray Darling Basin, but it’s already, um, It’s already facing a lot of water conflict. Um, and that’s really problematic because it is our food bowl.

It produces almost 40 percent of Australia’s agriculture. Um, and it also has, you know, a lot of communities, a lot of tourism. Um, and some really important environments, including like Ramsar wetlands, which are these wetlands of international significance, um, and yeah, really important species as well. So this, uh, reduction of, of, uh, inflows from the Australian Alps will exacerbate that water conflict, [00:21:00] um, in the Murray Darling Basin.

James Worsfold: Now our alpine areas have these. unique species of flora and fauna that aren’t found anywhere else in the world. And I’ve often heard our alpine region compared to the Great Barrier Reef in that, how unique species are, but also how it is impacted by climate change, because there are a lot of parallels between these two ecosystems.

Um, and the Great Barrier Reef receives a lot of attention, a lot of funding in terms of addressing its climate issues. Should the Alps receive the same amount of attention as the Great Barrier Reef?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, I think that’s a great point. I think the Alps should receive, uh, the same amount of attention as the Great Barrier Reef.

As you say, there’s these species there that are found nowhere else in Australia and also nowhere else in the world. Um, and that includes things like the, the mountain pygmy possum, um, the southern corroboree frog. These are really endangered species because they, they have such a limited habitat. Um, and we’re seeing that habitat shrink, um, due to, you know, [00:22:00] invasive species coming in or even just different native species that would normally not venture into kind of these like snowy areas.

And now that we’re seeing the snow line retreat, um, these animals are moving up and competing, competing with these really, um, yeah, I guess endangered species. Um, And the apps, the apps is such an important ecosystem. It receives a lot of, uh, a lot of attention from research, um, because it’s so unique. But I think in terms of the public, um, maybe there isn’t enough attention about how these, you know, Um, and how vulnerable they are, like, I think the Australian Alps is, it’s being called the canary in the coal mine, um, in the sense that internationally, it will be one of the first, um, ecosystems, um, to be, first Alpine ecosystems to be really impacted by climate change.

James Worsfold: With the Great Barrier Reef, you have a lot of dependent businesses and the tourism economy there is, is massive. That is also [00:23:00] facing similar challenges and climate changes as the Australian Alps. What is the role of local stakeholders and communities in mitigating and adapting to climate change?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, that’s a great question.

So I guess from like a resort perspective or I guess any tourism business, diversifying away from just snow dependent tourism will be really important. Um, and like, you know, if, if we do a fantastic job with our emissions reduction then, you know, winter tourism will still be great, but there’s nothing really lost by also investing in summer tourism or winter diversification.

So, to me, they seem like really like no regrets sort of actions. And you’re also seeing an opportunity here, um, with the Alps being a safe haven for heatwaves and urban heat islands. So as the rest of Australia, um, is going to increase in temperature due to climate change. Um, the Alps will still get hotter, but comparatively be a lot cooler in summer than, than other destinations.

So I think that’s [00:24:00] a real opportunity.

James Worsfold: So if I was the manager of a ski resort, I would want to focus on, on these adaptation methods and diversification, but in terms of mitigating, what is the best thing that I can do to allow people to keep skiing at my resort into the future?

Ruby Olsen: Um, I guess it’s. Renewable energy is a big one, and there are constraints that resorts are facing, like a lot of the, the mountainous terrain is not very conducive to solar panels, for example, or, um, you know, there, some of the resorts kind of lease their land off national parks, and so their ability to, to put in renewable infrastructure is limited.

Um, I know a lot have purchasing power agreements with Snowy Hydro, uh, which is, uh, renewable electricity. Yeah, other things resorts are doing, uh, I guess in general trying to be more sustainable in terms of their water, um, and electricity consumption. Uh, and I guess putting in things like electric vehicle charges, supporting things like, you know, getting the bus up to the skate resorts.

Um, but [00:25:00] also I think it’s really putting pressure on our governments to reduce our emissions at a national and, well, state, national and global level. Um, and I think your vote is, uh, is a really important, important tool, um, to say that, you know, you want to vote on issues of climate change, um, across, across any party, but that yeah, climate change is, is a major, a major issue.

James Worsfold: Do you think there could be a greater role in resorts and alpine businesses? And, and maybe Alpine Tourism Boards or councils in consulting with government or, or letting their, their voices be heard in terms of how they’re going to be affected by climate change?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, I think that definitely is. And results are already doing this.

Um, there are mechanisms like the Australian, uh, Sorry, the Alpine Resorts Victoria. Um, so I know Alpine, uh, ARV have been already talking with politicians. They’ve been producing reports about summer tourism. Um, and so, yeah, I think that that’s fantastic work, uh, that, yeah, should, [00:26:00] should keep happening. Um, and I guess, yeah, councillors as well, like, haven’t, haven’t heard maybe as much from the New South Wales side in terms of advocating to government about how adaptation is going to be affecting them and, and what needs to happen in terms of emissions reduction and support for adaptation as well.

James Worsfold: Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And it seems that on a, uh, personal level, the role that we can play is maybe get in contact with our local, uh, local counselor or a local member and, and let our voices be heard there.

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, I think so. And, you know, I think the work that Protect Our Winters is doing is important in that climate advocacy role.

Yeah, I just think that this is such a huge issue that is not spoken about enough because the more we can reduce our emissions, um, the more options we’re going to have to adapt in the future. And if we, if we leave it too late, we’re going to miss those opportunities and we’re going to really constrain ourselves into not the best possible future.

James Worsfold: And another area that the report covered was how climate change will affect the [00:27:00] mountains in terms of, uh, First Nations peoples who have an ongoing connection dating back thousands of generations. Now, what did the report find on this?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah. So as you say, um, First Nations do have this really deep connection to the Australian Alps.

Um, and the Alps are really significant for, for a few different reasons. So, um, They were kind of a meeting, a gathering spot during, during the summer months, uh, for multiple nations. So, you know, from across Victoria, ACT and New South Wales, um, different nations would, like, move to the, the Alps to coincide with the Bogong moth migration.

Uh, so the bogong moths would go in summer for this, it’s kind of a period of summer hibernation to cooler areas. Um, and it would provide this massive food source for like thousands and thousands of people, which is why you had all of these nations kind of come together as this celebratory, um, event, I guess.

Um, and there, there’s a lot of research into, um, Um, I guess like, you know, inter nation [00:28:00] marriages and ceremonies, um, and yeah, really important kind of cultural aspects for First Nations people. Um, I think while there is this recognition of this significance, something that I, the report found was that there’s very little, uh, research into how climate change is going to affect, um, First Nations people and their connection to the Alps.

Um, I knew we can assume that when we’re having this ecological change through, you know, snow gum decline, for example, and changes in vegetation and changes in species, that this will have an impact, but there isn’t that, um, that consultation, I guess, with First Nations people about what this actually looks like.

Um, so that was highlighted as a, as a big gap in the Australian OPS, um, that needs to be addressed. Um, and yeah, just talking to First Nations people about what their connection is and how it will change. Um, and also what can actually be done. I think partnerships with First Nations people is gonna be really important, um, both by like natural resource managers and, and also, I guess, government more [00:29:00] broadly.

James Worsfold: So the report covered a lot of topics and a lot of different areas of the Alps. Looking forward, what kind of research does there need to be to fill in these gaps in knowledge that the report might, may have highlighted?

Ruby Olsen: Yeah, so the report did make quite a lot of recommendations in each of the sections.

So, for example, in terms of ecosystem, ecosystems, there was kind of recommendations for no regrets actions, which were to Um, I guess, you know, do these basic things of, uh, invasive species and weed removal, um, you know, restoring of peat bogs and stuff. And then also research into kind of more novel and transformative changes.

So looking at, you know, what, what happens when an entire ecosystem changes its kind of form, whether it be because of snow gum decline or changes in vegetation. Um, so yeah, I think we need more research into these novel adaptation responses that might include things like translocation of species or genetic intervention to help, uh, give species the tools to [00:30:00] adapt.

Um, that’s definitely one area, and we’re, we are seeing some research in that area. Obviously, the snow gum research that I’m involved in at ANU, um, is fantastic. Um, I guess, yeah. The other things we need to see, um, are a kind of more coordinated approach to adaptation, particularly for, I guess, uh, alpine tourism and regional communities.

Um, I think, uh, if we have this coordinated collaborative approach across, ideally across all the different states as well. Um, we’re more likely to, to kind of seize opportunities, um, like, you know, be able to coordinate the different summer tourism offerings, for example, so that, you know, not all the resorts are necessarily competing against each other.

Um, being able to, I guess, share ideas, um, and I guess drum up this interest in funding, um, and support to help, uh, help regional communities and, um, and yeah, Alpine tourism adapt.

James Worsfold: So it’s really important for, for resorts, for businesses, for communities to come together. And, and address [00:31:00] this problem and not be separate or not ignore the issue.

Ruby Olsen: Yeah. I mean, I think so. I think a collaborative approach would definitely be, um, the best, the best way forward and, uh, yeah, really seize those opportunities, uh, not let, um, yeah, not let things kind of slip between the cracks where something could have been seized and, and, uh, and done at a good coordinated level.

James Worsfold: And, uh, just before you mentioned the phrase, no regrets actions, I love, I love this phrase. What does that mean?

Ruby Olsen: Uh, so yes, no regrets actions are actions that will have positive outcomes regardless of climate change. So, you know, for example, removing weeds is going to be good, even if we, you know, tomorrow all reduce our emissions.

Well I guess there are no regrets actions in the sense that, um, regardless of what happens with climate change, they [00:32:00] will produce a positive outcome.

James Worsfold: Now, Ruby, you and the team worked incredibly hard on this report. What was most rewarding about it?

Ruby Olsen: yeah I guess, yeah, one of the things for me personally, I’ve really enjoyed working on this report because, uh, I’ve been able to work with people who are really passionate about the ALPS.

Um, and I’ve also had a really positive response from individuals reading the report who have said, uh, this, you know, this, this brought up some research that I did a long time ago or, um, you know, thanks for writing this report. I think it’s really important to highlight these, These important climate change issues, um, that really are not just for people living in the Alps, but they’re an issue for all of Australia.

Right. Um, like so many people have this connection to the Alps. It is such a unique, incredible landscape for Australia. Um, yeah. So I guess it’s been a really positive experience for me working with these, uh, these passionate people.

James Worsfold: Great. You’re right. The Alps is a national treasure. So thank you so much on your work to protect them.

Ruby Olsen: Oh yeah. And thank you.[00:33:00]

James Worsfold: That was Ruby Olsen. Lead author of Our Changing Snowscapes. Now, when this report was released, it created a huge buzz and was all over the media. And it really hit home amid a poor ski season. But how did the Aussie snow community react when it was faced with the existential threat of climate change?

We’ll now speak to Power Director Alistair McLeod to find out.

Alastair McLeod: Yeah, so when we released the report, the goal of that was twofold. One was to bring national attention to the challenges facing the Australian alpine environment, and the second was to unite the industry and community to demand stronger action to protect these unique places. So, um, And from the first perspective of bringing attention to the issue, the report launch was amazing.

Within a week we had something like 420 press pieces on TV, online, in the newspapers. So the second goal, which was uniting the [00:34:00] industry and community to tackle the threat of climate change in our alpine regions, was a trickier one. As a whole, the industry is very sensitive to anything that could be perceived as bad press, and PAO actually faced this issue.

A significant amount of resistance and pushback. So that range from saying our report was greenwashing, not truly showing how dire the risks to our mountains are. And then at the other end of the spectrum, we were being called doomsdayers who don’t care about the businesses. The reality is we absolutely care about these businesses and communities.

Many of us at Power live and work in these places because we love them so much. While some of these situations were challenging to deal with, it was also great to see many of our stakeholders read the report and embrace it using it as the guiding document it was intended to be.

James Worsfold: So we have an industry that dances around the topic of climate change.

How does this compare to the people who love the mountains? Is there, is there a mismatch in attitudes between the people in the industry?

Alastair McLeod: Yeah, for sure. I’d say there’s a mismatch between what the community wants and what is [00:35:00] happening in the industry right now. No one wants to have horrible snow seasons like this year or even last year.

For Victoria, especially, it’s been very tough over the last five years. You know, there’s been. several very low snowfall years mixed in with all the harsh COVID lockdowns and people are feeling the financial pinch and the result of that is tensions are very high. Um, I’ve been seeing a sense of desperation for someone to do something because a lot of the community know that these poor seasons are a scary look into what the future could look like.

I know a lot of people want action, they just aren’t quite sure how or what that looks like. I think the first step is simply to start having conversations and by releasing this report POW has definitely got that moving in the right direction.

James Worsfold: Is there scope for the Australian ski industry to become less climate agnostic and work together conducively to tackle this climate issue?

Alastair McLeod: Absolutely. [00:36:00] Um, you know, the Australian ski industry is probably one of the most viscerally obvious industry is where you can just see the impact that climate has on it and There’s a lot that we as a nation must do. And as a result, there’s a lot that these businesses in the mountains must do as well.

Um, Australia punches well above its weight in terms of climate impact per person. We’re a very small portion of the global population. We export huge amounts of climate change around the world and our lifestyles are also very energy intensive. So the resorts can certainly do a lot, um, I would love to see all the resorts in Australia leading the world in trying to be sustainable because ultimately, um, there’s a lot at stake for them.

James Worsfold: But of course there are businesses who have acknowledged the problem. And, uh, trying to do something about it.

Alastair McLeod: Yeah, when I think back to, [00:37:00] um, episode two, James, that you did with Bright Brewery, um, that’s a great example of a small business taking opportunity into their own hands and trying to operate in a very forward thinking, sustainable way.

I think in general, communities need one business or two businesses to come in and show leadership on these issues and show that it is possible to operate in a more sustainable, better way. And you know, that, that’s like the little pebble that starts rolling down the hill and it, you know, picks up speed and gains momentum.

And together as a community, we can really push the needle and change the way things operate for the better.

James Worsfold: Over this past season, the Australian Alpine loving community has had to reckon with its future. Following on from the report, we at Protect Our Winters want to make sure the community has a voice and that we provide an opportunity to businesses to speak up as well.

Our final [00:38:00] stop on this episode is with our third Power Director, Jess Wilhelmsa, who will tell us about our new campaign called Our Mountains, Your Voice.

Jessica Willemse: Yeah, so building off the momentum of that report, what we’ve wanted to do is create this campaign that And so, um, the idea of this campaign is to, uh, give stakeholders a voice. And that came because in the report it mentions the fact that there are many stakeholders involved in the Aussie Alps, and that there are many values aligned with different stakeholders.

And so the idea of this campaign, It’s, you know, it’s our mountains, but we want to hear your voice. We want to hear your opinions, uh, your beliefs and your values that you hold about the Australian Alps, because it does mean something different to everyone. And at Protect Our Winters, we are obviously trying to protect that Australian alpine environment, but we need to make sure that we are representing our community.

Uh, as far as we know, there doesn’t seem to be, [00:39:00] um, a study or, or, uh, anything out there that has a big collective of that Alpine loving community, a big collection of their voices that lets us know, and hopefully policy makers and people in power know what that community actually values about the Australian Alps and what they want to do.

So the whole idea of this campaign is to figure that out. It’s to, yeah, let the Alpine communities or the Alpine loving communities. Have their voice, give their values, give their opinions, and then hopefully we can help shape those into meaningful opportunities that we can go to policymakers, to big organizations and start to get action that’s going to protect the Aussie Alps.

James Worsfold: So we want to hear the opinions and values of the up and loving community. How are we going Yeah,

Jessica Willemse: so, uh, we’ve initially, Phase 1 as we’re calling it, um, is going to be a survey. So, there’s an online survey available on our website. It basically tries to reach out to as many people as possible to find out what they’re [00:40:00] thinking.

James Worsfold: What’s the importance of Gathering this collective voice.

Jessica Willemse: Yeah, so there’s, I guess, a number of different ways we can look to tackle, uh, issues like protecting the alpine environment, climate change, all these sort of big problems. Um, and at POW, we’ve sort of divided, um, loosely divided those, those levels of action up into individual, collective, and national levels.

Um, and really POW sees. or would like to be sitting in that, in that collective space. So, uh, at the national level, that’s where we get really big actions. We get really big change, but it can take a really long time to get that change. And you’ve got to convince a lot of people that that is what other people want and that that is the best thing to do for the Aussie Alps.

And then if we go to the other end at the individual level, Uh, we’ve got thousands of individuals that can make minor small differences here and there, but that can be really hard when you’re by yourself, you know, trying to fight climate change as one [00:41:00] individual. So the collective, the idea of this collective is where if we can bring all these passionate voices together with all their opinions and values, we can get in the same room.

We can, we can strategize and sort of have a bit of an objective and aim. Then we’ve got this huge collective power to start acting on that national level. We can talk to politicians, you know, at state and federal levels, because we have this huge collective and support, basically this huge support behind us because we are representing the community.

So yeah, it’s, it’s really about getting as many people on board. Um, to getting as many people on board to aim in the same direction and get what we want from it, which is, yeah, to protect Australian winters.

James Worsfold: Well, Jess, that’s very inspiring. I’m feeling motivated to make my voice heard. How should I do that?

Jessica Willemse: So the best way to do that will be to fill out our survey, which is going to be on the Protect Our Winters Australia website. Um, and if not, [00:42:00] there should be lots of local businesses around, hopefully with posters up, QR codes, so you can scan those and do it either on your mobile or on a laptop. And yeah, that’s the best way to get involved, get your voice heard, and let Protect Our Winters know about your values so we can, we can pass those.

I guess those messages on to people in power and come together to do something about this, this issue that we’re facing and that we’re working together on.

James Worsfold: Do you think the alpine loving community is having enough climate conversations? Or do people tend to steer away from the topic?

Jessica Willemse: Yeah, I think if you go on social media, I think, just judging from that, it looks like maybe the conversations are starting to change and people are becoming, uh, more bold in maybe addressing that issue.

Yeah, it can be, it can be a really scary thing to talk about, you know, or acknowledge something that you love and care about is changing and potentially it’s changing [00:43:00] from actions that you’re involved in that can be really big and scary. And you know, it’s, it’s not just the environment. It’s not just, um, human skiing.

It’s not just the animals and plants. There’s people’s livelihoods tied up into this as well. So it’s a very, It’s a very complex area, and I think that can be scary for people, but, yeah, I definitely think those, those conversations are starting to happen more, and I would encourage them to happen. Let’s take charge, let’s be leaders, let’s have those conversations, and that way the, the activities, the adaptation processes that we go through will actually be owned by us, and I, yeah, I think that’s, that’s great.

For me, I would rather take on the responsibility and then have some sort of, um, input into the actions as opposed to, you know, stick my head in the snow and, and hope that it goes away.

James Worsfold: Yeah, and especially after our past couple very lacklustre seasons, the issue is becoming harder to ignore. All right, that’s all we have on the [00:44:00] Powercast today.

Be sure to subscribe and follow Protect Our Winters Australia on social media.

Jessica Willemse: And we would love you to complete our survey, so please jump onto our website at protectourwinters. org. au.

James Worsfold: All right, cheers Jess, see you next time.

Jessica Willemse: Bye James, stay stoked!